Oct 22 14:00:12 <Jane_>	Agenda for Oct 22nd dev chat:
Oct 22 14:00:12 <Jane_>	- Additional non-oembed sites – Viper007Bond
Oct 22 14:00:13 <Jane_>	- Upgrade notification in core
Oct 22 14:00:13 <Jane_>	- Trac voting
Oct 22 14:00:13 <Jane_>	- Multiple custom image sizes with retroactive image reprocessing – Scribu
Oct 22 14:00:13 <Jane_>	- Mailing lists
Oct 22 14:00:15 <Jane_>	- #WordPress ops
Oct 22 14:00:17 <Jane_>	- Trac configuration
Oct 22 14:00:19 <westi>	<meetup>
Oct 22 14:00:36 <Jane_>	Viper007Bond: you're up
Oct 22 14:00:57 <Viper007Bond>	i was thinking we should support some more sites out of the box that don't support oembed
Oct 22 14:01:13 <Viper007Bond>	i.e. come up with a list of some popular video sites and support them
Oct 22 14:02:28 <westi>	Are there a large number of sites that don't support it
Oct 22 14:02:52 <Viper007Bond>	youtube, vimeo, blip.tv all do. those are the most used i think.
Oct 22 14:02:57 <westi>	should we evangelise it with them rather than adding site-specific non-oembed support for each one
Oct 22 14:03:19 <Viper007Bond>	true, and plugins can _easily_ add support for other sites (oembed or not)
Oct 22 14:03:30 <westi>	I assume if they turn it on we will work with them out of the box or do we need to do something
Oct 22 14:03:40 <Viper007Bond>	i was just wanting to make sure i didn't miss anything obvious. a site that everyone would expect to work.
Oct 22 14:03:44 *	westi hasn't read the code in detail
Oct 22 14:04:02 <Viper007Bond>	if a site adds oembed support and a discovery <link> to their head, then admins can embed them right now
Oct 22 14:04:21 <Viper007Bond>	for non-admins / wpmu, we have to add their oembed provider url to an array
Oct 22 14:04:29 <Viper007Bond>	that can also be done via a plugin
Oct 22 14:04:46 <westi>	Cool - so maybe we should put effort into promoting oembed and make a simple plugin like my mime-config one to allow people to add extra providers
Oct 22 14:04:48 <westi>	easily
Oct 22 14:05:12 <Viper007Bond>	wp_oembed_addprovider( 'http://site.com/watchvideo/*', 'http://site.com/oembedprovider' );
Oct 22 14:05:18 <westi>	it could even include a reporting mechanism to report new sites - well a feedback link
Oct 22 14:05:21 <Viper007Bond>	actually, that's add_provider
Oct 22 14:05:34 <westi>	Viper007Bond: I was thinking a plugin to put a UI on that :-)
Oct 22 14:05:54 <westi>	similar to this one - http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/pjw-mime-config/
Oct 22 14:06:05 <westi>	KISS way for a user to add new ones
Oct 22 14:06:47 <hakre>	wp_oembed_addprovider - with regex or which syntax=
Oct 22 14:06:53 <hakre>	* wp_oembed_addprovider - with regex or which syntax?
Oct 22 14:07:16 <MarkJaquith>	Is it simple enough that a user could whitelist, say, a domain?
Oct 22 14:07:25 <CIA-4>	wordpress: ryan * r12093 /trunk/wp-admin/update-core.php: GUU UI rough in. see #10973
Oct 22 14:07:27 <wp-trac-bot>	CIA-4: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/10973 normal, high, 2.9, ryan->, new, Grand Unified Upgrader
Oct 22 14:07:28 <new-trac-bot>	CIA-4: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/changeset/12093
Oct 22 14:07:40 <azaozz>	think the problem is how to tell the user about new providers
Oct 22 14:08:33 <Viper007Bond>	hakre: hold on
Oct 22 14:08:34 <azaozz>	I mean for WPMU or multi-user blogs
Oct 22 14:09:53 <hakre>	we could add a new screen option tab on tab containing those or a box on the right
Oct 22 14:10:33 <demetris>	About evangelism for oEmbed:  There is a placeholder page now in the Codex for oEmbed...
Oct 22 14:10:42 <demetris>	We could flesh it out, explaining the goodness of oEmbed, link to it from Dashboard, Media...
Oct 22 14:10:49 <demetris>	and then sending kind messages to sites that WP users want to use but that do not support oEmbed, with a link to the Codex page.
Oct 22 14:11:36 <MarkJaquith>	Viper007Bond: can adding new providers be simplified to adding a domain?
Oct 22 14:11:40 <Viper007Bond>	hakre: it doesn't support regex. it should. i'll fix it.
Oct 22 14:11:50 <Viper007Bond>	MarkJaquith: hmm?
Oct 22 14:11:56 <MarkJaquith>	Like, could I add 'vimeo.com' ?
Oct 22 14:12:24 <MarkJaquith>	Anything more complicated is going to be too complicated for users, I think.
Oct 22 14:12:29 <Viper007Bond>	MarkJaquith: wp_oembed_add_provider( 'http://www.vimeo.com/*', 'http://www.vimeo.com/api/oembed.{format}' );
Oct 22 14:12:31 <MarkJaquith>	And even then...
Oct 22 14:12:59 <MarkJaquith>	Viper007Bond: isn't there autodiscovery of an endpoint?
Oct 22 14:13:39 <Viper007Bond>	MarkJaquith: yes, but it's disabled for unfiltered_html users to avoid someone setting up an oembed provider just for the purpose of loading in bad html
Oct 22 14:14:00 <MarkJaquith>	Viper007Bond: but that's what I'm saying... an admin could add whitelisted domains.
Oct 22 14:14:44 <Viper007Bond>	via a UI of somesort?
Oct 22 14:14:48 <MarkJaquith>	Which could enable oEmbed autodiscovery for those domains.
Oct 22 14:14:56 <MarkJaquith>	A textarea would do.
Oct 22 14:15:13 <Viper007Bond>	well you need key value pairs
Oct 22 14:15:22 <Viper007Bond>	url to match -> provider url
Oct 22 14:15:23 <westi>	I don't think it's core material to extend the supported list
Oct 22 14:15:33 <Jane_>	agreed
Oct 22 14:15:33 <westi>	from a UI
Oct 22 14:15:34 <Viper007Bond>	i agree westi
Oct 22 14:15:38 <ansi>	+1
Oct 22 14:15:50 <hakre>	Viper007Bond: I'm not shure if that needs to be regex. Need to learn about oEmbed first.
Oct 22 14:15:56 <westi>	If we have the hooks someone should put a plugin together we can promote as _the_ way to do it
Oct 22 14:16:02 <Jane_>	+1
Oct 22 14:16:19 <MarkJaquith>	it's sounding a little geeky. Maybe Viper007Bond can do a canonical "buttload of oEmbed providers" plugin. :-)
Oct 22 14:16:20 <westi>	We have oEmbed - if your provider isn't supported yet enable it with this plugin
Oct 22 14:16:37 <westi>	which could just have a load of extra tick boxes
Oct 22 14:16:43 <azaozz>	yeah, an array in a plugin would be best
Oct 22 14:16:51 <Viper007Bond>	hakre: oembed.com just uses * as a wildcard. oohembed.com (provider that adds support for non-oembed sites) lists stuff like http://*.amazon.(com|co.uk|de|ca|jp)/*/(gp/product|o/ASIN|obidos/ASIN|dp)/*   though
Oct 22 14:16:54 <westi>	makes it easier to update
Oct 22 14:17:07 <Viper007Bond>	and really being able to do like (www.vimeo|vimeo).com would be handy
Oct 22 14:17:12 <Viper007Bond>	gotta do two lines right now
Oct 22 14:17:12 <westi>	Shall we move on?
Oct 22 14:17:24 <MarkJaquith>	Yeah, let's move on.
Oct 22 14:17:24 <Jane_>	rboren: Upgrade notification in core
Oct 22 14:17:28 <Viper007Bond>	westi: sure
Oct 22 14:17:52 <hakre>	Viper007Bond: yes, * for the subdomain and at the end, not for the sheme
Oct 22 14:17:53 <rboren>	We talking notification by email?
Oct 22 14:18:02 <westi>	rboren: I believe so
Oct 22 14:18:41 <westi>	I am -1 to core for it... I have been meaning to write a detailed email to wp-hackers but I know it will get lost in the noise while the bikeshedding continues.
Oct 22 14:18:56 <MarkJaquith>	westi: can you summarize your -1 reasoning?
Oct 22 14:19:10 <westi>	I'll try
Oct 22 14:19:12 <azaozz>	-1 from me too. Much better to use the announcements mailing list as suggested in the thread in wp-hackers
Oct 22 14:19:18 <westi>	We need to look at use-cases:
Oct 22 14:19:31 <westi>	1) User with one site
Oct 22 14:19:59 <westi>	2) User with a site managed by someone else (who manages a lot of sites)
Oct 22 14:20:24 <westi>	2) User with a few sites they manage
Oct 22 14:20:35 <westi>	And also
Oct 22 14:20:42 <Viper007Bond>	tick box enabled by default? we really gotta get users to keep up to date.
Oct 22 14:20:47 <westi>	(the second 2) is 3) BTW)
Oct 22 14:21:05 <hakre>	I liked very much the way drupal is doing it
Oct 22 14:21:11 <hakre>	you can subscribe to a notifaction mailinglist
Oct 22 14:21:22 <hakre>	and that's it.
Oct 22 14:21:23 <westi>	Viper007Bond: As soon as you suggest we need a tick box === not core material
Oct 22 14:21:41 <westi>	Needing a tick box for something this simple ==> plugin material
Oct 22 14:22:01 <jorbin>	Perhaps an opt-in  at site creation to add that e-mail address to the announcements mailing list?
Oct 22 14:22:39 <westi>	The person that the email is really aimed at is Use Case (1)
Oct 22 14:22:43 <Viper007Bond>	westi: okay then, i say +1 with a canocial plugin that disables
Oct 22 14:23:06 <demetris>	Lynne Pope made a good suggestion on the list about the notifications:  Change the first default post to talk about this, with a link to go somewhere to subscribe to notifications.
Oct 22 14:23:14 <demetris>	Any thoughs on her suggestion?
Oct 22 14:23:18 <westi>	demetris: yes I think that is a good idea 
Oct 22 14:23:26 <westi>	Improve that copy to include lots of useful info
Oct 22 14:23:33 <demetris>	Yep!
Oct 22 14:23:36 <westi>	Back to my use cases
Oct 22 14:23:38 <Viper007Bond>	i'm more worried about the users that don't visit their blog that often and as a result don't see the upgrade notice
Oct 22 14:24:00 <hakre>	Auto-Takedown of inactive Blogs after on month.
Oct 22 14:24:06 <hakre>	on = one
Oct 22 14:24:37 <hakre>	As a kind for parental control.
Oct 22 14:25:21 <Viper007Bond>	erm, right
Oct 22 14:25:46 <westi>	The users will multiple sites either for themselves or for other are much more likely to already be monitoring and aware of updates so we should not need to put extra work into targetting them
Oct 22 14:26:09 <westi>	It is the user with one site who doesn't blog often that is most at risk
Oct 22 14:26:30 <hakre>	Maybe some more usefull feedback: The one post about "keeping current" by matt about a month ago really raised awareness. I think it's a good idea to inform users how they can get active to care, like joining a mailing list.
Oct 22 14:26:31 <westi>	especially the one who enables user registration as it is percieved as preventing spam
Oct 22 14:27:24 <westi>	I would put these users in the realms of 25% WP installs probably and therefore the solution for them should be outside core code
Oct 22 14:28:10 <westi>	We need to provide them with a number of ways of notification - some plugin based some mailing list based
Oct 22 14:28:40 <westi>	Adding a default on email to the core which emails every site owner about every new release is going to generate a _lot_ of email
Oct 22 14:28:49 <westi>	and a good percentage of that will get marked as spam
Oct 22 14:28:58 <jdingman>	what about an option inside WP General Settings that says "Subscribe me to the WP Updates Mailing List" and WP sends out an email on each release?
Oct 22 14:29:07 <westi>	It will also provide an in for social engineering attacks on the less savy users
Oct 22 14:29:33 <westi>	Spam runs of your WordPress site is out of date go here to login and update 
Oct 22 14:30:07 <MarkJaquith>	So, stick with e-mail list here: http://planetozh.com/blog/2009/09/top-10-most-common-coding-mistakes-in-wordpress-plugins/ ?
Oct 22 14:30:09 <westi>	Thoughts/questions
Oct 22 14:30:12 <MarkJaquith>	wrong paste.
Oct 22 14:30:15 <Jane_>	heh
Oct 22 14:30:26 <MarkJaquith>	but a darn good read.
Oct 22 14:30:27 <MarkJaquith>	http://wordpress.org/download/
Oct 22 14:30:27 <Jane_>	someone' was just flattered :)
Oct 22 14:30:28 <westi>	We could email them all that it might help them
Oct 22 14:30:59 <westi>	I think we should use that email list yes
Oct 22 14:31:39 <sivel>	hey all
Oct 22 14:31:42 <hakre>	I like this: http://drupal.org/security
Oct 22 14:31:59 <hakre>	you can get that as email as well.
Oct 22 14:32:09 <hakre>	but it means that there are pplz. taking care writing the reports
Oct 22 14:33:37 <sivel>	so the verdict is?
Oct 22 14:34:17 <hakre>	the verdict is that it's not only how you want to technically solve it but which information to provide with which policies.
Oct 22 14:34:25 <westi>	No update email in core.  Use the mailing list. Improve the copy in the first post to give hints and tips like subscribing to the list
Oct 22 14:34:36 <Jane_>	sold
Oct 22 14:34:41 <jdingman>	+1
Oct 22 14:34:44 <jorbin>	+1
Oct 22 14:34:54 <hakre>	+1
Oct 22 14:34:54 <Jane_>	Next: Trac voting ?
Oct 22 14:35:13 <ansi>	+1, am i too late?
Oct 22 14:35:16 <ansi>	:P
Oct 22 14:35:42 <westi>	trac voting
Oct 22 14:35:56 <westi>	AFAIK it's not used for anything at present
Oct 22 14:36:04 <westi>	There is a report on votes though - http://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/23
Oct 22 14:36:04 <demetris>	And it should not!
Oct 22 14:36:19 <hakre>	i click it here and there but I often see it's not widely used.
Oct 22 14:36:36 <westi>	I'm not sure exactly what value it adds
Oct 22 14:36:52 <jdingman>	I feel like /extend/ideas/ is more functional to the average user
Oct 22 14:36:54 <westi>	I would have though voting was for enhancements -> Ideas
Oct 22 14:37:10 <azaozz>	not really sure what we can discuss about it.. You can get a list sorted by votes, don't see how else it can be used
Oct 22 14:37:46 <hakre>	that's it. reporters will use it if they care. you have one vote per ticket. sounds fine to me.
Oct 22 14:37:46 <jdingman>	+1 to not change anything and keep ideas voting at /extend/ideas/
Oct 22 14:38:26 <Jane_>	yeah, we need to fix ideas at some point
Oct 22 14:38:41 <Jane_>	I'm hoping that i can convince mdawaffe to take it on as a side project
Oct 22 14:38:51 <jdingman>	what do you see is wrong with /ideas/ right now?
Oct 22 14:38:52 <Jane_>	anything else on this, or move on?
Oct 22 14:39:00 <jdingman>	can dismiss, not a big q.
Oct 22 14:39:09 <Jane_>	jdingman: too many things to derail meeting
Oct 22 14:39:14 <westi>	Move on I think
Oct 22 14:39:14 <jdingman>	k
Oct 22 14:39:15 <hakre>	we can pull the other trac topic in
Oct 22 14:39:19 <hakre>	xmlrpc for trac
Oct 22 14:39:21 <Jane_>	Multiple custom image sizes with retroactive image reprocessing – Scribu
Oct 22 14:39:24 <leogermani>	ji there
Oct 22 14:39:33 <leogermani>	i made this patch
Oct 22 14:39:38 <hakre>	what means retroactive?
Oct 22 14:39:55 <Jane_>	no idea .scribu doesn't seem to be here
Oct 22 14:40:06 <jdingman>	leogermani, please wait a bit, we're in the middle of a meeting.  thank you :)
Oct 22 14:40:16 <westi>	let leogermani speak please
Oct 22 14:40:19 <Jane_>	oh, wait, i guess going back and changing previously uploaded items marked with s/m/l for size
Oct 22 14:40:21 <westi>	he wrote the patch :-)
Oct 22 14:40:22 <jdingman>	oh
Oct 22 14:40:25 <jdingman>	lol
Oct 22 14:40:33 <leogermani>	hi guys
Oct 22 14:40:52 <leogermani>	the patch adds the possibility to add multiple custom sizes
Oct 22 14:41:08 <leogermani>	in addition to the core thumnail, medium and large
Oct 22 14:41:14 <hakre>	already by defining those in the blogs settings?
Oct 22 14:41:22 <jdingman>	westi, sorry.  my bad.  wont happen again.
Oct 22 14:41:44 <hakre>	or please provide the ticket number
Oct 22 14:41:44 <leogermani>	it also lets you regenerate all the thumbs, in case you chenged any size
Oct 22 14:41:55 <jdingman>	+1 dynamic image resizing
Oct 22 14:41:59 <leogermani>	http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/8599
Oct 22 14:42:26 <leogermani>	the patch was ready (except for the retroative image reprocessing) a month ago
Oct 22 14:42:37 <leogermani>	I was not aware of the feature freeze
Oct 22 14:42:52 <westi>	I think it is an interesting idea.. but I also like MarkJaquith's idea on the ticket too
Oct 22 14:42:53 <rboren>	MarkJaquith also has something that does dynamic sizing on the fly, based on stuff used on ma.tt and wp.com.
Oct 22 14:43:10 <MarkJaquith>	Yeah. But it relies on mod_rewrite.
Oct 22 14:43:25 <MarkJaquith>	But I was thinking that anytime we're creating the HTML for one of these images, we could do the check there.
Oct 22 14:43:42 <hakre>	for the sizes: the uploader works pretty well now. I know blogs users are upload 200 to 800 images per post. keep those heros in mind... ^^
Oct 22 14:43:44 <MarkJaquith>	If not existing, point it to our dynamic build script (with a nonce, perhaps, to prevent abuse).
Oct 22 14:43:48 <leogermani>	it also applies one important change scribu had wrote before, wich is create a funcion named get_intermediate_sizes(), and avoid all the apply_filters('intermediate_sizes', 'large', medium', thumb') hardcoded in several parts of the code
Oct 22 14:44:07 <westi>	I think we should put the feature into the 3.0 bucket
Oct 22 14:44:19 <MarkJaquith>	Yeah, I'd love it for 3.0
Oct 22 14:44:22 <hakre>	I really like the idea, just to say that.
Oct 22 14:44:27 <hakre>	For the patch.
Oct 22 14:44:34 <jdingman>	also need to think about if images are being offloaded to a CDN or something, so it's still easy to dyanmically generate them even if they're not local
Oct 22 14:45:17 <leogermani>	its pretty funcional, if you guys could give it a look perhaps it could go into 2.9
Oct 22 14:45:58 <MarkJaquith>	leogermani: two issues... it's late for a new 2.9 feature, and I don't like the idea of introducing a "Rebuilding" concept into WordPress core.
Oct 22 14:46:15 <jdingman>	MarkJaquith, +1
Oct 22 14:46:22 <leogermani>	MarkJaquith: I dont like the rebuild too actually
Oct 22 14:46:25 <hakre>	I do not have problems with setting up multiple sizes but rebuilding is problematic in my eyes as well.
Oct 22 14:46:37 <leogermani>	but scribu, the only one who replied, asked for it
Oct 22 14:46:45 <leogermani>	it could be easily removed
Oct 22 14:47:00 <hakre>	and provided by a plugin so the code does not get lost
Oct 22 14:47:13 <leogermani>	hakre: +1
Oct 22 14:47:18 <Viper007Bond>	going back to work, ping me if needed for some reason
Oct 22 14:47:21 <MarkJaquith>	I was thinking about plugin-ifying my code as well.
Oct 22 14:48:03 <westi>	Ok. I think we've covered that topic - shall we move on to the next one. "Mailing Lists"
Oct 22 14:48:16 <hakre>	next topic then
Oct 22 14:48:26 <leogermani>	westi: what is the resolution?
Oct 22 14:48:38 <leogermani>	moved to 3.0 without the rebuild?
Oct 22 14:49:08 <sivel>	leogermani: yes we need more time to re-examine
Oct 22 14:49:11 <westi>	leogermani: Moved to 3.0 - need to discuss in more detail desired functionality - best place is probably on the ticket on in a seperate IRC chat
Oct 22 14:49:16 <leogermani>	ok
Oct 22 14:49:50 <Jane_>	mailing lists is next
Oct 22 14:50:42 <MarkJaquith>	whose is that?
Oct 22 14:50:48 <sivel>	so bascially I'd like to have a new mailing list created so that people can do all of their "pointless discussing" elsewhere
Oct 22 14:50:50 <Jane_>	no idea, westi made agenda
Oct 22 14:50:57 <sivel>	it was my topic
Oct 22 14:51:15 <bazza>	pointless discussing follows useful discussing
Oct 22 14:51:21 <bazza>	sometimes the 2 are the same
Oct 22 14:51:21 <westi>	Jane_: sorry :-(
Oct 22 14:51:25 <westi>	sivel: wp-dev-null?
Oct 22 14:51:26 <sivel>	the bikeshedding on wp-hackers is getting out of control
Oct 22 14:51:30 <Jane_>	westi: why sorry? was just stating why i didn't know
Oct 22 14:51:34 <sivel>	westi: ha!  works for me
Oct 22 14:51:43 <westi>	Jane_: for my poor agenda writing
Oct 22 14:51:47 <Jane_>	heh
Oct 22 14:52:06 <sivel>	basically the past couple of days the wordpress security and wordpress as a cms topics have been bikeshedding craziness
Oct 22 14:52:22 <hakre>	hmm, normally I tend to say that you can not solve communication problems technically.
Oct 22 14:52:28 <westi>	Yeah - I don't think that a seperate list will help though
Oct 22 14:52:29 <sivel>	we need to be able to send these users elsewhere to finish out their discussions 
Oct 22 14:52:43 <sivel>	no doubt the conversation will start in wp-hackers
Oct 22 14:52:57 <sivel>	I'd just like to recommend a place that exists where they con continue their discussion 
Oct 22 14:53:02 <westi>	I think the best solution is to suggest they go write a blog post to express there views
Oct 22 14:53:07 <westi>	or start a topic in the forums
Oct 22 14:53:21 <hakre>	forums came into my mind as well
Oct 22 14:53:24 <westi>	they can take the "discussion" somewhere more appropriate
Oct 22 14:53:36 <demetris>	sivel: But already we have something good out of the discussion you did not want on wp-hackers!
Oct 22 14:53:39 <sivel>	whatever the resolution I just want it to be better than now
Oct 22 14:54:00 <sivel>	demetris: what is that, that we wont include emails?
Oct 22 14:54:13 <sivel>	that was the idea before the thread started, so it ended up being pointless
Oct 22 14:54:17 <demetris>	No, that we will rewrite the first post with useful info.
Oct 22 14:54:24 <westi>	sivel: the problem is changing the emailers - it's not a technical problem but a social / behavioural problem
Oct 22 14:54:36 <sivel>	I know, I was just looking for ideas
Oct 22 14:55:10 <sivel>	I just don't like what the non hackers are doing to the list, I have seen some good "hackers" leave the list because of this
Oct 22 14:55:26 <demetris>	They come back. :-)
Oct 22 14:55:35 <sivel>	I realize there is technically there is no acceptible way to stop it
Oct 22 14:55:35 <Jane_>	i heard a discussion once that suggested making hackers only go to plugin authors in repo
Oct 22 14:56:00 <MarkJaquith>	"earn your +v"
Oct 22 14:56:01 <Jane_>	but it didn't go very far
Oct 22 14:56:03 <westi>	I think we have to be careful not to set the bar too high
Oct 22 14:56:07 <sivel>	Jane_: yeah, the other thought I had was pruning it to only allow users who have contributed to core
Oct 22 14:56:16 <sivel>	but that is kind of strict
Oct 22 14:56:19 <westi>	I think we need to set the tone better
Oct 22 14:56:21 <sivel>	and not reasonable
Oct 22 14:56:29 <westi>	define the point of the list better
Oct 22 14:56:35 <sivel>	I think we just need a figure head to help out
Oct 22 14:56:45 <hakre>	good point to say what this list is for.
Oct 22 14:57:10 <sivel>	we need a core comitter or someone like Jane to perhaps make it more clear
Oct 22 14:57:20 <westi>	If we have a clear list etiquette  to point people to it may help
Oct 22 14:57:33 <westi>	Also ensure to take complaints off list
Oct 22 14:57:44 <sivel>	agreed
Oct 22 14:57:50 <westi>	sivel: I have tried in the past and they don't list when I reply on list
Oct 22 14:57:57 <westi>	s/list/listen/
Oct 22 14:58:18 <hakre>	And we should motivate users to grab their trunk copy and start implementing stuff testwise instead of discussion only.
Oct 22 14:58:47 <sivel>	I think that at least my email today made some people stop and think that their arguments weren't necessary
Oct 22 14:58:57 <westi>	Also a lot of stuff can be written as a plugin first and a patch second
Oct 22 14:59:37 <sivel>	westi: I think we are good here.  I think we know the direction to take.
Oct 22 14:59:56 <Jane_>	next up was ops for #wp
Oct 22 14:59:58 <sivel>	perhaps discuss it in more length at a later date, I can try to work some things up
Oct 22 15:00:01 <Jane_>	i'd like to make a suggestion
Oct 22 15:00:06 <sivel>	Jane_: ;)
Oct 22 15:00:10 <sivel>	stop adding it ;)
Oct 22 15:00:28 <Jane_>	November 14 in NYC, sivel appraoches matt and asks him to do it, while sivel is standing there
Oct 22 15:00:29 <westi>	If people could enhance http://codex.wordpress.org/Mailing_Lists#List_Etiquette
Oct 22 15:00:35 <Jane_>	you'll both be there
Oct 22 15:00:40 <Jane_>	(at wordcamp)
Oct 22 15:01:02 <westi>	and also write an enhanced description for the list on that page I will try and
Oct 22 15:01:03 <sivel>	Jane_: alright will do.  I'll trap him in a corner or something for a moment
Oct 22 15:01:06 <MarkJaquith>	have the computer out and in Dvorak mode.
Oct 22 15:01:09 <Jane_>	last item on the agenda was - Trac configuration, but sicne it's 6, i'm going to get back to work. :)
Oct 22 15:01:18 <westi>	work on promoting good behaviour on the list
Oct 22 15:01:22 <sivel>	Jane_: talk to you later
Oct 22 15:01:28 <sivel>	MarkJaquith: will do ;)